The best-connected drummer in town suddenly has a lot of time on his hands. Zak Starkey’s time in The Who is – seemingly – at an end, following a fractious, occasionally farcical final spell. He’s not without options, however – the son of a Beatle, he spent a decade in Oasis, drummed with Johnny Marr for almost as long, and has performed, recorded, and partied with more legends than you can wave a stick at.
Right now, his focus is on Mantras Of The Cosmos – a kind of way-out supergroup that utilises the skills of Ride (and now, apparently, Oasis) guitarist Andy Bell, Happy Mondays’ duo Bez and Shaun Ryder, and more.
Seated in the foyer of a central London hotel, Zak is a little drowsy. Inspiration hit during the night, and he only stopped recording at a quarter to seven. With a quick nap to refresh, he emerged 10 minutes prior to our interview, quaffing the strongest black coffee he could find. Shaun Ryder was also meant to be here, but – true to anarchic form – he’s not, instead recording a re-scheduled segment for Gogglebox.
“He’s a national treasure,” Zak laughs. “It’s amazing isn’t it? 35 years ago he’d have been robbing your wife’s handbag under the table. Not now! He’s doing Big Brother, done the jungle twice. It’s amazing. Him and Bez, they just don’t have an agenda. They are who they are. They aren’t the type of people to say anything other than what they mean.”
“I never knew Shaun until we started this. I cold-called him! I said, I’ve got an idea for a 21st century Hawkwind. I had a few songs. And he just went: yeah! Let’s do it!”
The pair clicked immediate, and elements of Shaun’s insouciance permeate the band’s counter cultural stance. “I thought I was getting the unmanageable, but I wasn’t…”
At this, Zak clicks into a different mood. Alan McGee “tried to scupper my band because it was threatening the Mondays. He got all the cameras cut off at Glastonbury. The set wasn’t filmed – now, that’s not a coincidence, at Glastonbury, is it?”
“Shaun was going to shut down Mondays and do this… but then Oasis happened, and the ripples there meant they got a lot of offers. So, as long as the Beatles don’t reform I’ll be able to finish the album at some point!”
Zak veers from topic to topic – disarmingly honest, totally charming, he’s been the fly on the wall at a thousand parties, and met virtually anyone you care to mention. Pointing to my 60s inspired knitwear, he starts to recall late 80s sessions with Steve Marriott. The famed Small Faces (and Humble Pie) icon was at that time playing pubs for cash money, and the two would hang out. In the wee small hours of one evening, they retreated to an all-night rehearsal room, Steve performing Motown classics on an acoustic, just for kicks.
Or there’s his reggae imprint, Trojan Jamaica. “Got a Grammy for that, by the way! I hope people remember. Even though it’s a meaningless piece of metal, voted for by idiots who have to decide if your record is 51% reggae or not.”
Along the way, he released an all-star concept album, “the idea of red, gold, green, and blue… the music of the American spirit and the Jamaican slave, made by their ancestors.”
He also developed a rapport with his long-time hero Peter Tosh. “I mean, Bob Marley is great. I love Bob. But Peter is tougher. And he’s got a sense of humour you don’t get from Bob.”
It was projects like these that finally got Zak Starkey interested in production. Long a drummer-for-hire, he went behind the boards, learning from watching those around him. Taking part in a special Teenage Cancer Trust collaboration – The Who’s Roger Daltrey is a long-time supporter and benefactor of the charity – he spent time around producers like Youth and (especially) Ian Broudie.
Of the latter, Zak says simply “he’s my guru, really. If I need to talk about anything, it’s him.”
“Look,” he says, “I’ve got 14 tunes that aren’t finished. Some of them are absolutely fucking bonkers. Most of them about Putin and what a cunt he is!”
“Even Bez thinks they’re mad,” he laughs. “He told me, that tune you sent me at six in the morning? It’s too weird!”
One upcoming single features Sean Ono Lennon and James McCartney – a triptych of Beatles sons united on one record.
“They’ve become good friends of mine in the past three, four years. Never knew them before, really. Everyone thinks the Beatles have a tea party every Sunday, and we all get together and it’s all gear, fab, groovy, and that,” he laughs uproariously. “But I got to know them these past few years, and I’ve got so much respect for them as musicians. James is a fucking amazing singer. I had a title, a loose song I was working on, and Sean did all these John Carpenter synths on it, and a vocal that sounds like his Dad but on even more acid!”
“But then Shaun Ryder came in, and just fucking threw them all in the sea! He proved there was only one genius in the room. It was unreal. Boom. Five minutes. Done.”
The album could have featured former Kraftwerk musician Karl Bartos – a friend, seemingly, but he sadly declined due to his advancing years. Andy Bell contributes guitar, however, and Zak is still seeking out advice from some familiar faces.
“I was speaking to Pete Townshend the other night about the conception of an idea, the writing of an idea, the producing of an idea, and the playing of it… and the commitment to takes to mix it. And it’s daunting. It’s fucking daunting.”
Ah, says, Clash – so you’re still in touch with The Who?
“Oh I text Pete, and I speak to Roger every week”.
Hang on…
“So, I got fired twice in two weeks, right. And Roger was on the phone two days ago, and said: look, don’t put your drums in to storage just yet, in case we need you. And I said, you what?! Let me know before I start playing drums with Noddy Holder or summin!”
So, we actually saw one of those fateful Royal Albert Hall shows – your ‘final’ nights with The Who…
“And I was terrible, wasn’t I…?”
To be honest, Pete’s knee replacement surgery was throwing him off…
“Roger never misses a note. The power and the glory and BANG on the note every time. Doesn’t always happen to be in the right place,” he laughs. “If he looked at me, I’d save him every fucking time.”
“Oh I don’t know,” he says, suddenly sombre, almost maudlin. It’s evident that playing with The Who – who he has essentially known since childhood – means an enormous amount to him. “I don’t know why I got fired yet. I dropped two beats. I don’t remember that, and I can’t find them. But is that really a sackable offense?”
Zak Starkey knows The Who inside-out – he was close friends with John Entwistle, the band’s stalwart bass player. He has a drum lesson from Keith Moon, and remains a dear friend to Kenney Jones, Small Faces’ drummer and Moon’s replacement in The Who.
“I’m seeing Kenny this weekend, actually,” he notes. “Lovely, lovely man. Kenny taught me drums. Keith gave me one lesson. But Kenney, he actually taught me. I’m seeing him this weekend for a roast.”
Trying to push the conversation to more optimistic plains, Clash asks after his summer plans.
“Well, I might be back in the Who! I don’t know, the way Roger’s talking. It was left ambiguous. Honestly, I think public opinion had something to do with it. And I didn’t enjoy that a lot. Roger’s been my mate for 30 years and beyond. We’re tight. We are tight.”
“The thing about The Who is, they’ve got an addiction to friction. And without that, they wouldn’t be The Who. Without it, you wouldn’t get The Kinks, you wouldn’t get Oasis…”
Ah, the O-word. What’s your take on the reunion then, Zak?
“Fantastic!” he beams. “Everyone’s wants it, yeah? Greatest songs, greatest singer I’ve ever seen. Great mates. I did text them saying ‘I’m a bit pissed off… why aren’t I in it?!’ But Liam’s got a new drummer. And once you’ve got a new drummer, that’s it. If you’re comfortable with your guy, you’re comfortable with your guy.”
Seizing the day, Zak intends to use the next few months to complete his album, and bring his vision to fruition. “I’m trying to finish a few more tunes. We’ve a few singles up. And we’ll get vinyl pressed up once we get some fucking dough together… because that’s what gets you a chart position they days, isn’t it? Make a really good record, charge a million quid for it, and you’ll be number one for 10 years!”
Mantra Of The Cosmos’ new single ‘Domino Bones’ is out now.
Words: Robin Murray
12th June
2025